Hazaaron Khwaishein Aisi...A Thousand Dreams Such As These...The title of his new film is reflective of the man who’s made it. A man who’s not afraid to dream. Not that all his dreams have blossomed but that hasn’t stopped him from dreaming some more. An incurable optimist he sees change in a world that others fault... Admires radicals who others flay... Makes a political epic on the Emergency that has won praise from makers like Shekhar Kapur and Ashutosh Gowariker and insists that it works more as a love story. A love story that has the ability to make people laugh and move them to tears rather than drive them to dissent. With the backing of PNC and The Indian Express that share his conviction, Sudhir Mishra is determined to give Hindi cinema a new direction.

Excerpts from an Interview:
 
What are your memories of the "Indira" years?

Well, I was pretty young at the time of the Emergency. What I can recollect is that some of my seniors in college were prevented from doing the kind of political theatre they wanted. The kind we used as a means of protest later. Dissent is not a bad word. To disagree with your parents doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t love them. But during the "Indira" years anyone who was anti Mrs Gandhi was either in jail or underground. There were sparks of rebellion but besides political activists, no one reacted much. In fact, mostly the middle-class celebrated. A certain elementary efficiency had come into the system and that gave the powers-to-be a reason to justify the implementing of extra laws.

Yeah, I recall people in Patna marveling over the fact that for the first time ever trains in the state were running on schedule.

Such rationalisation is ridiculous but that’s what is dangerous about imposing Emergency in a country like India. On account of our years-old feudal social structure those already in power gain more powers. And what was once arbitrary is now legitimized. I’ve seen a boy being arrested for just talking to a girl in Delhi’s Connaught Place because he belonged to the "wrong" party. Unfortunately, those who were opposed to the ruling party too weren’t very forward-looking. In fact, I hold Jayprakash Narayan as responsible as Mrs Gandhi for making India what it is today. Sure, JP was able to bring the right and left wings together, but they had little in common apart from blind anti-Congress sentiment. Consequently, when this faction came to power it was funny the speed at which it disintegrated. The Janata Dal fiasco is as much a part of our history as the Emergency.

There’s a scene in Hazaaron...where we see a Sanjay Gandhi lookalike supervising a nasbandi operation. The ruling Congress government won’t be too thrilled to be reminded of this embarrassing chapter in its chequered history?

A lot of Youth Congress workers looked, dressed and behaved like Sanjay Gandhi at the time. The character you’re referring to could be one of them or it could be Sanjay himself. The idea was to show a person who may have assumed extra constitutional powers by association to the powers-that-be. It’s a fact that Mrs Gandhi imposed Emergency. That elementary freedom and democracy lost their meaning at the time. I’m at a loss to understand why our censor board has been trying so hard to suppress this fact. It’s important to face history squarely in the face. Where the ruling party is concerned, I don’t think it will behave like the RSS. I’d like to believe that the Congress understands that discussion, debate and dissent are essential to the functioning of a democracy. My grandfather was quite involved in Mrs Gandhi’s coming to power. (With a wry smile) I could be accused of biting the hand that has fed me but as a citizen of this country I have the right to raise certain issues. That I’m living in a one-bedroom apartment gives me more of a right because it proves that I’ve never used the powers I had access to for personal gain. (With another smile) In the end I’m more a University teacher’s son and have remained loyal to what my father taught me rather than what my grandfather practiced.

Considering that The Indian Express was one of the few newspapers that under the stewardship of Ramnath Goenka raised its voice against the Emergency, how do you feel about its association with Hazaaron...today?

I’m pretty thrilled because The Indian Express is intrinsically linked with that time. Yes, it was a lone voice of protest. Hazaaron...however is not elementary criticism of any one party. The idea the film is aligned to is that India is not the best possible of all worlds. Despite this, there was a generation that dared to hope. They may have failed but today some of the fundamental principles and laws that we take for granted like copyright, women’s liberation and empowerment of the landless, are because the youngsters in the ’60s and ’70s were not afraid to fight for what they believed was their right to a better life. A quarter-of-a-century ago, if a Brahmin raped a low-caste woman on the streets of Lucknow, it would not even have earned him a reprimand. Today, it’s unlikely that he’ll get away. That’s a leap forward...That’s change...That’s progress. And I’m neither a Communist or a Socialist. I’m a democrat.

The film also looks at the Naxal movement in rural Bihar.

Yeah, back in the ’60s and early ’70s, a lot of young people from upper-class backgrounds like my hero Siddharth were drawn to the Naxal movement because of the total violence and obscenity evident in the oppression of people in rural India at the time. Radicals like him tried to change the world for the better, and failed. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that nothing changed. One cannot fault Siddharth because though a flawed dreamer at least he dared to dream for a while. My reason for incorporating this angle though was not to hold a brief on political ideology of any kind. Hazaaron...basically is a film about being young. And the youngsters of the time were not afraid to take risks as they experimented with life. Life for them was more of an adventure than what it is today. Shekhar Kapur, Dev Benegal and Ashutosh Gowariker have called Hazaaron...the first genuinely political film to be made in Hindi and while it is about three people who are not too keen on the India they have inherited from their parents, it is not entirely about politics. It’s a story about friendship and love. A story about life and as in life in my film too there’s no elementary cause and effect. The one you expect to be brave eventually plays safe while the coward becomes the hero. There’s something about love that brings out the worst and best in us. It can make us do things we never thought we were capable of.

Almost all your films have challenged the conventional idea of the Hindi film hero.

That’s true and if you notice the macho hero who can do no wrong, has been absent from most of the films that have done well in recent times. Devdas was a non-hero and even in Kal Ho Naa Ho Shah Rukh stands aside to allow a marriage to take place. He’s dignified...He’s sad...He’s far from the brutal mard who once ruled the box-office. Today, I think, women relate better to a softer man.

Hazaaron... has been screened at a dozen prestigious festivals. What has been the audience’s reaction round the globe?

The film for all its intensity has a funny bone. I sat through five screenings in Berlin and was surprised to find laughter coming at the right places. This showed that though the predominantly German audience didn’t know the specifics of the situation, they understood in essence what was happening. Hazaaron... is not a dry documentary but a tactile love story that moves you. Shekhar Kapur sat for a good half-hour after a show, crying quietly. They are many like him from the ’70s generation who have come up to me and said, "Thank you." It’ll give their children an idea of what their parents were like when they were young and impress on them that at even 50 plus there’s a lot they can still do to make for a better tomorrow. It would be an interesting experience for a father and son or a mother and daughter to watch Hazaaron... together.

But will a generation that’s growing up on the bubblegum culture be drawn to a film like Hazaaron...?

Once they come in I know they won’t want to leave. We had a screening in Goa during the India International Film Festival. I watched 20 management students from Delhi walk into a show. They were 21-year-olds, definitely not political beings, yet they were completely bowled over because Hazaaron... can be a funny, warm, emotional experience. (Smiles) I’m a storyteller who tries not to bore people.

So you believe that there’s still hope for intelligent cinema?

I do but most of our distributors don’t trust the audiences enough. There’s a latent obscene eve teaser in many of these traders who believes that all human beings are like him. Consequently, they are only interested in churning out crap. They killed the music industry by insisting that every song had to be about balle balle and ishq vishq. Such numbers may be viable at discotheques where people move to an animal rhythm, but elsewhere their charm has paled. (Smile wryly) When Akbar ruled Tansen played, when Aurangzeb came to power music was dead. I challenge anyone to show me a song like ‘Bawara man...’ that’s come out in the last 10 years. At a time when most Hindi films have become variety entertainment packages, the music of Hazaaron...has unity and integrity. At a time when many are cribbing that we’re only making copies and adaptations, here is a film that is completely original. So surely its maker deserves a pat in the back.

The entry of corporates must have come as a blessing to filmmakers like you who have never adhered to the formula?

I’ve worked with corporates all my life whether it’s Plus, PNC or Zee. I can relate to them better than a distributor in East Punjab. The advantage of corporates is that they are not just eyeing immediate profits, they take value into consideration too. PNC is an ideal corporate set-up because it is not faceless. And while Pritish (Nandy) and I may not agree on a lot of issues politically, he’s an interesting, intelligent man with a wicked sense of humour. Someone who believes in stories and has the courage to back them at a time when many others are backing stars.

YEH WOH MANZIL TO NAHIN (’87)

A film about three old people who used to be radicals in their youth. They go back to where they started only to realise how much they’ve changed and recollect uneasily the comrade they betrayed. What do I remember about my first film? I remember Habib Tanvir’s face and Pankaj Kapur’s brilliant performance.

(Smiling) Aziz Mirza once told me that he had thought Yeh Woh Manzil...was made by an 80-year-old who wasn’t all that different from his protagonists.I was only 25 when I wrote the script. It was sourced in North Indian politics. It was an attempt to reconcile my grandfather and father’s disparate ways of thinking. It was a film made by an angry young boy. That would explain the fervor and idealism of youth as also the need for change and dignity.

In a way Hazaaron...is a similar kind of film though much softer. The ending is more emotional because I’ve realised since that you don’t find happiness in political solutions. The man who’s made Hazaaron... has changed. I’d like to believe he’s become a better filmmaker.

MAIN ZINDA HOON (’89)

A film about a young migrant in Mumbai. Even after her husband deserts her, he continues to support her in-laws who when their son returns, show their gratitude by labeling her a whore and pushing her over the edge. I was new to the city myself at the time. A North Indian migrant too enjoying the sense of freedom that anonymity in a big city brings, tentatively trying to find my feet even as I wondered what was around the next corner.

Main Zinda Hoon is memorable for Deepti Naval’s brilliant performance. I like to tell my stories through my women characters because women unlike men are not afraid to appear soft, silly or even ridiculous. They are not afraid to show their frailties and still manage to be independent or strong-minded without trying to be a man.

Hazaaron...is a film about two men but if you ask me who I’m closer to Vikram or Siddharth, I’d say neither, I’m Geeta, the girl they both love. Geeta is a tribute to all the women I’ve met and known through the years.

After working with Kareena Kapoor in Chameli I want to remake Main Zinda Hoon with her as Anuradha In America. The setting would change from Mumbai to America but the essential storyline would revolve around the migrant experience of the Diaspora. Back in the ’80s, budgetary constraints had forced me to curtail some of my creative ideas that could find expression if I remade the film today.

DHARAVI (’91)

People remember Dharavi for Madhuri Dixit. It was very kind of her to agree to spoof herself. But Dharavi is basically Om (Puri) and Shabana’s (Azmi) story. Raj Karan Yadav, another North Indian migrant, while trying to assert his individuality and retain some kind of dignity, echoed my own feelings at the time. We know Dharavi as Asia’s largest slum, a place that breeds pimps and prostitutes. But I found lots of petty entrepreneurs there like Yadav, a taxi driver who dreams of owning a factory. His dream is shattered when he gets embroiled with gangsters. His wife returns to her first husband. Life’s a bitch but Yadav doesn’t stop dreaming.

Dharavi released in six theatres in Mumbai, was doing pretty well when the Shiv Sena suddenly took umbrage and killed it prematurely.

ISS RAAT KI SUBAH NAHIN (’96)

The film was inspired by my brother, a film institute student who once slapped a gangster without knowing who he was. A black comedy about an underworld don who is trying desperately to woo a girl. Her ad exec boyfriend offends him and suddenly,the couple are on the run...

While other films in this genre that followed including Satya and Vaastav idealised the gangster, Iss Raat...portrayed him as a normal guy trying to do his job. He’s weighed down by a sense of loss, sadness and frustration that his encounter with the ad guy magnifies and sparks off a long suppressed rage. It challenged the conventional idea of the hero, something you see in Hazaaron...too.

CALCUTTA MAIL (2003)

I’m not too happy with this film but many who’ve seen it on TV have told me they liked it. Calcuttans insist the City of Joy has been depicted very well. That’s because I lived there for three months, studying at the Indian Statistical Institute and working with Badal Sircar’s theatre group. The playwright is one of my heroes. I was also married to a Bengali, Sushmita Mukherji for 10 years.

An interesting story of a budding novelist in search of a story, a father in search of his son and a rich politician daughter in Bihar in search of the perfect mate, Calcutta Mail blended North Indian politics with Kolkata’s distinctive culture. Unfortunately, the film was in the making for too long and lacked cohesiveness. Sometimes it was a Sudhir Mishra film, sometimes it wasn’t. My problems were basically with the producers. Working with popular stars like Anil Kapoor, Manisha (Koirala) and Rani (Mukerji) was no different than working with actors like Shabana, Om and Deepti. All good actors are interested in doing their job well, it’s the system that defeats you.

CHAMELI (2004)

Pritish (Nandy) came to me after Anant Balani’s death and urged me to complete the film. I was hesitant. Chameli was Anant’s story and not even his actors were aware of how it was to shape up. However, when Anant’s wife called me up and insisted that he’d have liked me to live out his dream because when they were courting he had seen Iss Raat...and been very influenced by it, I couldn’t refuse. I made it clear though that I couldn’t imitate anyone. The only way I could pay tribute to Anant’s memory was to make the film my way.

Chameli is a "what if" film. Under normal circumstances a prostitute and an investment banker would never meet. I found the impossibility of this situation interesting. Not many prostitutes are like Chameli and not too many bankers like Aman which is perhaps why when they meet one rainy night they use the pretext of rain to stay together. They could have easily parted. That they didn’t was because they had nowhere to go and the one place they could have returned to was far worse than where they were.

Chameli starts out wearing the face of a typical whore but as the rain washes away her garish make-up, we see is a little girl fighting to survive. Somewhere along the way she and Aman "connect" but then what happens to them, where they go, we never know because that’s how it is with fairy-tales.

For me too Chameli was a journey. I was figuring it out as I went along. Fortunately, Rahul (Bose) and Kareena were wonderful companions. People who known my work were surprised by Chameli. They were expecting a more hard-hitting film...A hard-nosed tart. What they got was a fairy-tale of a lost princess. And I’d like to believe that like all fairy-tales they enjoyed this one too.